WCMA Forum

Road Racing => Race Discussion Board => Topic started by: TrentO on November 25, 2015, 10:49:36 AM

Title: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: TrentO on November 25, 2015, 10:49:36 AM
After having a blast at the LA1K, I'd like to do more Team Endurance racing.  I'd like to talk about setting up a four event LA1K style series. I like the one day events, with enough time between to put the car back together. Given a four event series, it should shake out luck as a factor. I think we could simplify the rules down to one or possibly two classes if required.  Goal with a one day event is to cut down entry price so a four event series would still be affordable and make the time commitment more managable.

Thoughts?
-Trent
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: giantkiller on November 25, 2015, 03:46:01 PM
Hi Trent,

I like the idea of an endurance series, but rather than separate event dates what about doing 4, 2-4 hour events as part of the race weekend, separate grid and separate entry. 1 hour stints with mandatory driver changes. Conference does this quite successfully.

I think it will be really hard to staff, promote and attract enough people to individual events, but either way we are interested!
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: Spec Volcanic on November 26, 2015, 08:18:20 AM
Hey Trent / Anthony,

I think the right idea is some where in the middle... The suggestion I have previously made to organizing clubs is ,

Is 2 endurance events on a race week weekend (and no KoR that weekend), run a 3-4 hour race, separate entry, 2 driver min (like conference) and one stand alone event 8hr or greater event (like La1K)
Do classing like Conference or NASA (where cars are grouped in to 4 larger classes, based on regular class)
Points for the series, count only to the series, and the stand alone event is double points.
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: 10cc on November 27, 2015, 04:08:47 AM
So, are you guys suggesting we stop having the normal class races that we have now? What about Vintage and Open Wheel? I personally know how hard it is to create a weekend schedule that satisfies everyone.

Another issue is that some of us don't really want to run our cars all day long, and have different cars for endurance races. I really don't want to be bringing two cars to the track on a weekend....just a thought.

As far as having separate dates from the regular season, I think that idea is a non-starter based on how hard it is becoming for us to just get our five dates and the school.

There is also ChumpCar which has announced 2 x 12 hr races for end of July...

I too really enjoy endurance racing, with driver changes and all....serious fun, and I would like to see more of it. Question is.....how? I think that IF we get another track in the not too distant future, we will be more able to run endurance races. My secret "deepthroat" sources inform me that we still may be in the running for a track not far from Calgary.
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: ChrisS on November 28, 2015, 09:42:01 PM
I like this thinking as well.  The LA1K was a great event, as was the conference enduro at the Ridge.

Another issue is that some of us ... have different cars for endurance races. I really don't want to be bringing two cars to the track on a weekend

That's a good point.

Chris
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: Sue Wilson on December 03, 2015, 05:11:26 AM
While having more race events would be great, be cautious about adding too many more weekends to the schedule.  It is hard enough getting workers for the events we have now without asking them to come out more often.
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: Blair Robertshaw on December 03, 2015, 08:32:19 AM
Endurance racing is a completely different animal and trying to combine the NASCC club weekend within an endurance race??? dont think the two mate that well. simply not enough time. Sue also makes a good point.... officials? Right now they put in a very long day and sometimes in arduous conditions so asking them to double shift well into the night is probably not going to happen but you never know. track workers / volunteers are there for their love and addiction to the sport, one way for sure get get less from them would be to ask them to do this sort of thing IMO. Brookes point of bringing 2 cars to the track and the logistics of that are a big undertaking for small team member teams.

If endurance racing is what you want to pursue why not form a club or org that focus' on just that. Get officials, get track time as its own entity. Tall timber I know but if you have enough interest you should be able to do it without encroaching on the current format.
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: Blair Robertshaw on December 04, 2015, 07:53:11 AM
Trent, I spoke with a few guys yesterday that do Chump race / endurance race, about your post, they commented that they thought an endurance series would be welcomed by many particpants so you may be on to something. Track time and volunteers would appear to be the challenge but if you can get that handled you may have a series in the waiting.
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: 10cc on December 04, 2015, 09:04:08 AM
I  guarantee that getting track time at Castrol would be the biggest, if not impossible hurdle.
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: giantkiller on December 04, 2015, 10:52:13 AM
I think this thread is great. Lots of interest and responses to an otherwise very quiet board.

From my perspective there are 2 ideas:

Full length endurance racing:
Races of 6 hours or longer. Format similar to Chump/Lemons/LAK1. This requires separate day, staffing etc. Logistics are much more difficult, but market is there as there are many Alberta based teams that travel 1000's of KMS per year attending events elsewhere. You can't argue with the success of this format as these races can often lead to large grid sizes and driver counts in the many hundreds, although the format of these races requires a separate dedicated day.

Shorter format endurace series. Kind of like a King of the Road but on steroids:
These are 2-4 hour races, usually as part of a sprint race weekend. Cars are typically sprint racing cars with additional prep for endurance racing. There could also be an opportunity to have other dedicated endurance cars join (ITj or E0, E1, E2 etc) In ICSCC as a comparative, many of these cars run both the sprint races and endurance series as part of the same weekend, often with a short prep (tire swap, aero removal etc). Again I think the market is there as it increases cooperation and teamwork and it allows more people to enter our sport. For many people the barrier is acquisition and preparation of the car, not the time or enthusiasm. I know at least 5 friend/ racers who would gladly jump in if there was a format to collaberate. A cool format if the schedule would allow would be (3) 2 hour races with a 4+ hour finale at the last race weekend.

I don't think anyone is looking at replacing or shaking up the format, I also don't think that the formation of a new club is required, I think it is about adjusting the format as time goes on to meet changing demographics and trends to maximize the impact of each event - and ultimately ensure the viability of our sport locally.
 
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: ChrisS on December 04, 2015, 04:20:13 PM
I think the King of the Road races could use some steroids; they seem like long sprint races rather than enduros.  Too short for pit stops.  They count towards regular class championships, so they don't really offer an opportunity to put additional drivers in the same car.  Now if all the KOR races from the season were condensed into 3hr Endurance races on a couple of weekends...  Add a flagship standalone event like the LA1K and you'd have a decent series!

What about inter-province?  Would you travel between Alberta and Manitoba for some Enduros?  What about BC?  CACC seems to be willing to play with us.

Chris
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: 10cc on December 05, 2015, 07:15:47 AM
The KoR races don't count towards the WCMA class points, just the NASCC/ARCA Alberta Overall Championship and the KoR Series Championship.

Again, cold water on this, as the Castrol scheduling is not in our favour. I suggest that we not bother even talking about other dates at that track, as we simply won't get them. It is hard enough as it is the get dates for our regular events. Politics, politics, politics. If we want endurance races, we will need to fit them into existing time, and we have no guarantee that we will even get as many weekends as we want already. Sorry to be a downer, but the reality is what it is.
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: Spec Volcanic on December 05, 2015, 09:03:34 AM
I think the King of the Road races could use some steroids; they seem like long sprint races rather than enduros.  Too short for pit stops.  They count towards regular class championships, so they don't really offer an opportunity to put additional drivers in the same car.  Now if all the KOR races from the season were condensed into 3hr Endurance races on a couple of weekends...  Add a flagship standalone event like the LA1K and you'd have a decent series!

What about inter-province?  Would you travel between Alberta and Manitoba for some Enduros?  What about BC?  CACC seems to be willing to play with us.

Chris

This is what I'm talking about
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: Al36rx7 on December 15, 2015, 10:32:26 AM
I think the KOR on Steroids is great.  I see this format in two directions.

Current format works well that more people will be interested since pit stops are not required to run a 1hr race.  Easier to fit into the weekend race schedule.

-Change of format to 2 hr....This will become a strategy.  Not all faster cars can run 2hr straight, so will have to stop for a quick 5 gal of fuel
-Format change to 3 or 4 hours will truly force everyone into pit stops.  The 4 hour format may force some faster cars to stop twice.
-Having a 1K race as a premier race of the season would make it quite interesting.  How many GT1 to GT3 style cars will make it 1k without issues?

If there was also an option to add a race at Gimli as part of one of their weekends, that would be great.  Providing the Winnepeg folks wants to take part in this series.

Everything is an option....Life is a negotiation...BlahBlahBlah

Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: Spec Volcanic on December 15, 2015, 10:40:54 AM
I think the KOR on Steroids is great.  I see this format in two directions.

Current format works well that more people will be interested since pit stops are not required to run a 1hr race.  Easier to fit into the weekend race schedule.

-Change of format to 2 hr....This will become a strategy.  Not all faster cars can run 2hr straight, so will have to stop for a quick 5 gal of fuel
-Format change to 3 or 4 hours will truly force everyone into pit stops.  The 4 hour format may force some faster cars to stop twice.
-Having a 1K race as a premier race of the season would make it quite interesting.  How many GT1 to GT3 style cars will make it 1k without issues?

If there was also an option to add a race at Gimli as part of one of their weekends, that would be great.  Providing the Winnepeg folks wants to take part in this series.

Everything is an option....Life is a negotiation...BlahBlahBlah

Love it...
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: ChrisS on December 16, 2015, 09:55:30 AM
-Change of format to 2 hr....This will become a strategy.  Not all faster cars can run 2hr straight, so will have to stop for a quick 5 gal of fuel

Or an alternative: during the ICSCC 6hr Spring Enduro, they run a concurrent 2hr enduro.  They have a forced pitstop during that 2hr race for all team, with a minimum stop time.  This allows two drivers share a car for the 2 hour race without penalty.

Chris
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: 10cc on December 18, 2015, 03:01:56 PM
Now that our 2016 schedule is public, it is easier to understand my concerns about more
track time at Castrol. We only got four race weekends from them this year. Asked for five,, got four ! I just don't understand a race track not seeming to want racing.....

Just have to make the best of it.
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: TrentO on January 05, 2016, 01:25:09 PM
What about an event on a weekday evening?  Do a 4 hour enduro?

-Trent
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: Ital1 on January 07, 2016, 03:36:45 PM
Back in the day we completed in the Molyslip endurance series across Canada, it was will attended. We enjoyed the experience and the competition was strong. This is a great idea that could expand into a western series and might attract a sponsor.
It can all start within the NASCC race week end.

The real focus is to get more involvement into our sport.
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: JustinL on April 19, 2016, 10:53:30 AM
What about an event on a weekday evening?  Do a 4 hour enduro?

-Trent

My team has been building an endurance racer 944 and we'd certainly be in to run in a series. I like the idea of weekday evenings especially if we can run into dusk a bit as I think changing conditions are a big part of endurance racing. The other key feature that I like about endurance racing is the driver changes. KoR is great, but making it longer with only one driver isn't quite the same as what I think Trent is suggesting. Putting it on a weekday evening would also not require me to haul my #144 and the enduro car on the same weekend. I think it's a great idea.
Title: Re: Single day, Endurance series
Post by: majormojo on April 19, 2016, 01:05:44 PM
I'd be interested in weekday evening events. For enduro / multi-driver events, I think I could probably put together a team of interested drivers.