Author Topic: Race City - Motion to City Council  (Read 10580 times)

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October 31, 2008, 09:42:39 AM
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  • Guest

Here is some info on the motion to City Council to extend the Race City lease to 2015 - I know its not the best facility in its current state - but it is the only one we have at the moment.

Meeting is scheduled for Nov 3-4 (next week)

Feel free to cross post it to any other forums ....

-----  from Art
Alderman McIver and Alderman Connelly?s joint motion to City Council is basically asking Council to direct the Administration to recognize the existing Race City lease (to 2015), and to ensure that road access is given in the construction of the landfill access.  It?s pretty much as good as we could ask for, if it passes.

There is no opportunity to speak to the motion for the public and the motion might be dealt with anytime between about 6pm on Monday and 4pm on Tuesday, according to McIver.  He thought a show of support would be useful but he cautioned that the time involved to be there could be very long.

Perhaps the best thing for us to do would be to get those involved in the facility, or who have businesses or clubs involved in the facility, to email the alderman where they live, or where their business resides and tell that alderman what affect losing the track would have on their lives in the City of Calgary.

Aldermanic office contact page

October 31, 2008, 09:44:09 AM
Reply #1


  • Guest
Here is the motion that they are trying to pass:

NM2008-October 23



WHEREAS the City of Calgary has a lease with Race City Motorsports Inc. (RCMI) as Lessee;

AND WHEREAS Race City provides an the only real choice for Racing in Calgary;

AND WHEREAS Race City provides an outlet for those who would race on the streets to do so in a more safe environment on a track and off of the streets;

AND WHEREAS the Calgary Police Service puts valuable resources every year into preventing street racing which may need to be expanded if Race City is no longer available as an alternative;

AND WHEREAS Race City subleases to The Calgary and District Cart Racing Club, which provides a safe and family friendly environment for young people who have an interest in racing;

AND WHEREAS Race City and sub-lessees provide a tourist destination for the City of Calgary while paying over $100,000.00 per year to The City in the form of rent, tax and business tax;

AND WHEREAS Race City holds a lease that is scheduled until 2025 with The City of Calgary which is currently under dispute based on  timing of renewals received and possibly other issues;

AND NOW THEREFORE BE RESOLVED THAT Administration be directed to allow Race City to continue to renew their lease based on the original terms conditions and renewal options beginning with approval to renew to 2015 as Race City Motorsports Inc. has requested.

And further be it resolved that Council directs the administration to protect access to both Race City and Calgary and District Cart Club while redesigning the Shepard Landfill.

November 28, 2008, 08:09:22 AM
Reply #2


  • Guest

November 28, 2008, 09:01:09 PM
Reply #3


  • Guest
The Following was posted on Race Cites Website on November 5th by Art MacKenzie:

Wednesday, 05 November 2008

The motion before Council was discussed behind closed doors at this weeks meeting, at the request of the City's Legal Department.  The result of the discussion was that the City Council needed a more complete package of information from the City Administration on all aspects of the issue.  The Administration is supposed to bring back this information soon. 

How soon would likely be affected by the City's concept of time .  I am hoping this month, but maybe they will take until January, or longer.  Race City has had no official notice from anyone yet and this is the just the best information I can gather.

I would like to thank all of your who have notified your Aldermen and asked them to support this motion.  I think it has already made some difference,  Hopefully it will continue to show Council that residents of Calgary use and enjoy this sports facility as much as others, even though we are not publicly funded.

More to follow when I get real information...

Art MacKenzie 

January 21, 2009, 01:40:55 PM
Reply #4


  • Guest
Here is the latest email sent by Allen Berg:

Further to my previous mail, please see the highlighted section of the following article:

Otherwise we are faced with Race City Speedway closing at the end of the 2009 season.
January 20, 2009 by admin
Race City events like these could be thing of past after 2010 Photo credit: Sports Action Photography by Mo
The report on Race City requested by Ald. Ric McIver goes before City Council January 26. Ald. McIver?s motion calls for an extension of Race City?s lease to at least 2015. He says the vote will be close and race fans need to lobby their aldermen to make sure the motion passes.
?I expect it to be a close vote on Monday on extending the lease,? he said. ?I hope my colleagues see the wisdom in giving them some time to find another location to operate. And also the wisdom in providing a safe place to race cars and also keep a tourist attraction going.?
If Council chooses not to extend the lease, Ald. McIver says Race City will have to vacate the property in 2010. Since a municipal election will be held that year, Ald. McIver says Race City could become an election issue.
?I think this will be an election issue if this (the lease extension) gets turned down. The racing community is large and active and I?m sure they will take note of which way members of Council vote,? Ald. McIver said.
Art Mackenzie, Race City owner
If Councils votes against a lease extension, Race City owner Art Mackenzie says he will seriously consider suing the City of Calgary. Mr. Mackenzie claims City Hall?s action have already caused businesses losses for his company because the impending closure of the facility has made it very difficult to obtain sponsorships or schedule events.
Mr. Mackenzie?s dispute with the City centres around a lease extension signed in 1993. The original lease ran from 1985 to 2005. The extension ran until 2025. According to Mr. Mackenzie, City Hall bureaucrats have told him that he ?never acted upon the extension,? meaning the lease ran out in 2005. Since then he has supposedly been ?over-holding? the lease.
Mr. Mackenzie says he has been told by City Hall that Race City continuing to occupy the property on the southeast outskirts of the city is ?inconvenient? to the department of waste services, which must find a location for a storm water retention pond for the Shepard Landfill.
?I find that a frustrating word. Basically, it?s inconvenient for a bureaucrat to have to change plans or think a little bit about what they?re doing. But maybe it?s really inconvenient for several thousand people that use the race track directly or come and watch events,? he said.
All Race City matters before Council are now in camera, which means the discussion is closed to the public. Administration officials have also deemed that any matters relating to Race City, including background studies and reports, are also in camera and cannot be discussed in public.
Ald. McIver is not sure when the report will be made public. If the City is still negotiating with Race City after Jan. 26, which seems likely, he says the report will remain in camera until the legal issues are resolved.
Without Race City, popular events like the junior dragsters would have no place to race Photo credit: Sports Action Photography by Mo
?My notice of motion says I want the City to extend the lease for Race City at least until 2015?under the original terms and conditions. I know there?s an argument about whether they put their renewal in on time, but just based on the fact that having Race City around is good for the city and citizens of Calgary I think we should be willing and able and anxious to overlook that,? Ald. McIver said.
Both Ald. McIver and Mr. Mackenzie called upon the motorsport community to call, write and email their aldermen to express their support for an extension of Race City?s lease
Thank you for your support of motorsport in Calgary.

Allen Berg
Allen Berg Racing Schools Inc.
(403) 253-3235
(888) 722-3220

"Dear ABRS Racers and Driving Enthusiasts,

Please see the following email and article in SE Calgary News.

If you feel strongly about maintaining Race City Speedway beyond the end of the 2009 season, perhaps the time is appropriate to contact or recontact your respective alderman on this.

Please feel free to distribute this email or to post on your websites

Thank you for your continued support of Motorsport in Calgary.

Allen Berg
Allen Berg Racing Schools Inc.
(403) 253-3235
(888) 722-3220

Ladies & Gentleman:

The report has come back to the Land & Asset Strategy Committee from City
Administration this week and although nothing in this report can be made
public until the public meeting in Council on Jan. 26, reading between the
lines from two sources close to this, it doesn't look good for us.
So our only recourse other than legal action, is to once again ratchet up
the political pressure on the Alderman and the Mayor through e-mails, phone
calls and the media. So our fight begins once again. It's up to us to try
and save our respective sports, because if we thought it was going to be
tough to get a new facility constructed 6 months ago, the problem now has
become 10 fold because of the economic situation we all find ourselves in.
Time to get busy folks.

Rick Francescone
Calgary Motorsports Association

S.E. Calgary News

January 14, 2009 by admin
Art Mackenzie, owner of Race City
Something rotten is wafting out of City Hall.  I can?t quite put my finger on it yet, but I?m trying.  One thing is certain: the fix is in for Race City.  Motorsport enthusiasts, if you love your local race track, now is the time to bombard your alderman with emails and letters, because Race City has got a very short shelf life.
Let?s recap.
Art Mckenzie, Race City?s owner, was informed by the City of Calgary he would have to vacate the premises in 2010 because Waste Services needed the land for a storm water retention pond.  This effectively put a bullet in Race City.  Sponsorships dried up, events stayed away.  Enter Ric McIver, alderman for Ward 12.  Mr. McIver took up the cause and late in 2008 brought a motion to City Council to extend the lease with Race City until at least 2015, preferably 2020, and prepare a report on the dispute, which will be presented in camera on January 26.
In camera means confidential, not open to the public.  Now hold that thought.
The problem with Mr. McIver?s well intentioned actions is that Mr. Mckenzie contends he has a valid lease with the City until 2025.  I only have Mr. Mackenzie?s side of the story ? which is another thought you should hold for just a moment.
According to Mr. Mackenzie, the lease has been re-negotiated several times since the track opened in the early 1980s.  The current version requires the lessee (Race City) to notify the City every five years of its intention to extend the lease for an additional five years.  In 2000 Mr. Mackenzie says he filed the appropriate documents with City Hall indicating his desire to lease the land from 2005 to 2010.  He did the same in 2005 for 2010 to 2015.
Now here comes an important point: when he filed in the past, Mr. Mackenzie says he never once received a written acknowledgement that the documents were received or that the City agreed to extend the lease.  Instead, his lease manager would call him up and say everything?s ok.
Oh, and one other point.  The City kept cashing his cheques.
Sometime in mid-decade the Alberta government changed its environmental regulations.  The pressure was on to build a storm water retention pond for the Shepard Landfill.  Conveniently, Race City was right next door.
What about that pesky lease to 2025?  According to Mr. Mackenzie, he was told his lease agent no longer worked for the City and they couldn?t find his documents.
Furthermore, and here?s the real kicker, the City now claimed that the lease had expired in 2000, that none of the extensions had been acted upon and Race City had been allowed to overrun its lease out of the goodness of the City?s flinty little heart.  Never mind that Mr. Mackenzie had been told several times by the City lease agent that his lease was in good order and that the extensions had been filed properly.
I think a reasonable person would say that sounds just a little too convenient.  The City needs land to build on and the lease documents for the best land available suddenly go missing ? or if you believe the City, were never filed.  Or the insurance position, that the lease had already been invalid for seven years.
The gods must have been smiling on City Hall that day.
Drag racing will be a thing of the past in Calgary if Race City closes. Photo credit: Action Sports Photography by Moe
 Let me reiterate.  I only have Mr. Mackenzie?s side of the story.  And everyone knows there are always at least two sides to every story.  So I started phoning City Hall to get its side.
First up, a media relations rep.  Sorry, he says, after checking with the higher ups, the matter is before Council in camera (remember that from earlier on?) and that means every aspect of the dispute with Race City is now confidential.
Coincidence is now official raining from the sky.  How could the bureaucrats have been so lucky?  Just when the media wants some answers, they don?t have to produce them.
But I try to dig a little deeper.  The City Clerk?s office quotes the Municipal Government Act to me in an email:  With respect to meetings held in private (in camera) Section 153 (e) of the Municipal Government Act states as follows:
Councillors have the following duties:
(e) to keep in confidence matters discussed in private at a council or committee meeting until discussed at a meeting held in public;
This same rule applies to members of the Administration who were in attendance at the same council or committee meeting.
A point immediately occurs to me.  If aldermen and bureaucrats have to keep mum about Race City issues they discuss in camera, what about those issues they don?t discuss in camera?
No, I am told, once a matter is discussed in camera, then every last jot and tittle concerning that matter is now considered in camera.
Imagine this scenario.  During an in camera session, one bureaucrat says to the other, ?Boy, how about that Race City thing?  That?s gonna bite us in the butt.?  Bingo!  No alderman or City official is now allowed to publicly comment on any aspect of the situation.
Again, how convenient for the City.  When things get a little hot on an issue, simply convene an in camera meeting and you never have to answer another media question until Council makes it public.  And by then it?s likely to late.
Nice roadblock, fellas.  But I wasn?t taking no for an answer.
I get passed off to a lawyer in the Legal Department.  I put my questions to him.  Five minutes later my head is about to explode.  He has parsed the question to the point of inanity and twisted things so that I?m not even sure what I asked in the first place.  One thing is clear, though - he has no intention of helping a reporter.  I am the enemy and he and his colleagues are circling the wagons.
Back I go to the Clerk?s office.  This time I get passed off to Dave Griffiths, the real live director of waste services and recycling.  He hammers home one more time that the issue is in camera and he?s not coughing up any information.
Mr. Griffiths ended his email with a telling comment, however:  ?There are a variety of elements related to this expansion including the development of supporting infrastructure and ensuring our ability to meet all regulatory requirements and protecting the environmental integrity of the landfill.  I conclude by saying that the expansion is critical to ensure that we can continue to address the waste management needs for Calgary.?
Let me translate from bureaucratese:  Mr. Mackenzie, you are screwed.  The City thinks it needs that land and they are going to have it, one way or another.
Message received loud and clear, Mr. Griffiths.
Now, there are two ways Race City can be saved.
One, Mr. Mackenzie can go to court and fight City Hall.  He told me that he?s tried to negotiate with the City, has written letters with compromise proposals, but the bureaucrats have clammed up.  No replies.  Not interested in negotiating.  A law suit may be his only remaining option.
Two, political pressure.  Motorsports enthusiasts, business owners, anyone who thinks this issue is unjust, can write or email their aldermen and demand the City back off.  Demand that the City honour the lease until 2025.
Someone needs to organize a rally at City Hall pronto.
Maybe Mr. Mackenzie will sue, maybe he won?t.  But he hasn?t yet.  And if the matter is not before the courts, then why are City bureaucrats so afraid to talk about this issue publicly?
Mr. Griffith or any other official of the City is welcome to the pages of SE Calgary News to explain their side of the story.  They can comment on this blog in the space below, just like any reader.  I?ll even post audio or video of their explanation so they can be sure the message isn?t distorted.
I don?t have all the facts.  I only have Race City?s version of events.  But based on what I have seen and heard so far, something is not right in City Hall.  Race City is being railroaded because the City needs land and the race track is sitting on it.  Even if City Hall does nothing more than drag out the process before explaining itself at some distant point in the future it wins because Mr. Mackenzie will likely have shuttered the doors, padlocked the gates and declared bankruptcy.
City Hall is a public institution.  It should explain itself publicly in the media, not stonewall inquiries.  Voters and taxpayers must hold it accountable.
Reader, the ball is in your court."

January 21, 2009, 09:52:04 PM
Reply #5


  • Guest
For those who want to contact their or other Alderman below is the link to the page where you can send a email to them.

Aldermanic office contact page

January 22, 2009, 06:17:29 PM
Reply #6


  • Guest
Here are the e-mail address for the mayor and council members.

Andre Chabot:
Bob Hawkesworth:
Brian Pincott:
Dale Hodges:
Dave Bronconnier:
Diane Colley-Urquhart:
Druh Farrell:
Gord Lowe:
Jim Stevenson:
Joe Ceci:
Joe Connelly:
John Mar:
Linda Fox-Mellway:
Ray Jones:
Ric McIver:

Rick Francescone
Calgary Motorsports Association

January 22, 2009, 07:31:02 PM
Reply #7


  • Guest
Received another email from Allen Berg - here is the latest:

Dear Motoring Enthusiasts,

As you will read in the article at the end of this email, the City Council vote is apparently on Monday Jan 26.

 If you are so inclined and haven?t already done so, please contact your alderman to express your support of Race City Speedway and the preservation of recreational motorsport in Calgary.

If you are unsure on who is your alderman or how to contact them here are a couple of links that should help you:

Here is a link to the City of Calgary ward map
which shows which ward your community falls into.

The aldermen ward list
If you click on your respective ward number on the left side and follow the links you will be able to send an email to your alderman.

It has been suggested to provide a form letter, however these appeals will be far more impactful if we each spend just a couple of minutes writing what the closure of Race City Speedway would mean to each of us.

?   A little known fact is Race City Speedway is the highest utilized racetrack in Canada and is booked for virtually every day and evening during its operating months.

?   Calgary is also unique to have a multiuse racing facility (Drag Racing, Oval Track Racing, Road Racing, Karting, Motorcycle Racing, Solo Events, Drifting) within the City Limits. Most North American racetracks are located at least 30 minutes outside of major civic centers.

?   Race City regularly hosts Friday Night Drag Racing for those that are seeking an outlet to drive their roadcars. Without Race City, we would no doubt begin to experience an increase in illegal street drag racing.

?   Race City Speedway is the site for driver safety training companies (including ABRS) that operate accident avoidance skid pad training year-round. There is no other local venue for these companies to provide these courses.

?   As I mentioned previously, if the vote is to terminate Race City Speedway the track will be closed at the end of the 2009 season.

Please spend a few minutes of your time and support Race City Speedway and the preservation of recreational motorsport in Calgary.

Feel free to post this on websites and distribute this email to friends, colleagues and enthusiasts of motorsports.

S.E. Calgary News


January 22, 2009 by admin
Race City attracts thousands of fans from outside Calgary each year
City Hall won?t answer questions about Race City and the Shepard Landfill, but a long-time Calgary contractor and motorsport race fan thinks he may have some of the answers.  Ron Brooks spent the past 40 years in the excavation business.  He knows a few things about construction.  And he has an interesting theory about the City of Calgary?s attempt to kick Race City from its current location.
Mr. Brooks thinks the brouhaha over construction of a storm water retention pond for the landfill is a diversion.  He points to City documents he emailed to me as proof the landfill has all the land and storm water handling facilities it needs for the foreseeable future.
The documents were part of a tender put out last summer by Department of Waste Services and Recycling for a leachate collection system for the Shepard Landfill.  The documents consist of a site plan and the tender for the collection system.  Mr. Brooks also provided a Google Earth map on which he marked the location of parts of the landfill relevant to the Race City issue.
Now, when the email with these documents landed in my inbox, I first thought they were the Race City equivalent of the Pentagon Papers, something to blow the lid off the ?cone of silence? City Hall has thrown over this issue.  Nothing is more frustrating than a fractious issue no one will talk about.  The City has invoked in camera privileges to ensure neither administration officials nor alderman say a peep in public.  Poor Art Mackenzie, Race City?s owner, says the City won?t even respond to his lawyer?s letters.
When any level of government is this secretive about something, the natural inclination is to be suspicious.
I read the documents provided by Mr. Brooks with great interest.  At first, I was puzzled.  A storm water retention pond is slated for the southeast corner of the landfill, why put one on the Race City land?  The drawings also showed storm water management wetlands.  How much storm water management capacity was required?  Seemed like they had plenty already.
Race City is located top right. Shepard Landfill is immediately to the left.
But I?m not an engineer.  I emailed Dave Griffiths, director of waste and recycling services for the City for an explanation.  However, Mr. Griffiths had made it very plain in earlier emails that he would not comment on Race City because of the in camera restrictions.  As of publication I have not heard from Mr. Griffiths.  If he does respond I will post those comments in an update.
That left me with Mr. Brooks.  Mr. Brooks has done some homework on the Shepard Landfill.  He cites a 2000 report entitled ?City of Calgary Landfill Gas Renewable Energy Assessment? that says the Shepard facility has enough capacity to last until 2038, three decades from now.  He also notes that several of the settling ponds in the northwest corner, built in the 1970s, are now obsolete and will be turned into landfill area, freeing up even more area for garbage.
Citing study on the East Calgary Landfill he found on the web, Mr. Brooks calculates that to provide similar storage capacity for the Shepard Landfill would require approximately 23 acres of storm water retention ponds.
?There?s an awful mad rush to put in 23 acres?and there is some ponding there already.  Why can?t a plan be developed to incorporate those storm ponds into the land that is directly east of the landfill site?? Mr. Brooks asks.
The land Mr. Brooks is referring to is directly south of Race City and abuts the eastern edge of the landfill where future expansion is planned.  The planned use for that land is not spelled out in any of the reports Mr. Brooks has reviewed.  In fairness to the City, that land may not be available for a storm water retention pond.
The point he is trying to make is that not a lot of land is required for the pond and there appear to be other options than the Race City land.  I?ve been asking about other options since SECN began covering the Race City story.  Race City has provided at least one.
Mr. Mackenzie has offered to integrate the retention pond or ponds with a re-designed road race course.  He estimates there are 50-60 acres available.  If Mr. Brooks? figure of 23 acres for the ponds is correct, surely there should be enough room to accommodate a dual-use design, both pond and race course.
 ?If you re-designed the road course a little bit it would be pretty easy to?shut down the track for a year and go and build this into a major facility and incorporate all of this into a useable facility for the public and a useable facility as a landfill retention area,? Mr. Mackenzie said.
Race City is prepared to invest in building a full-scale road race course that could host international race events.  He says the ponds could be designed in such a way that they enhance the visual appeal of the track.  And arrangements could be worked out that would guarantee the City access to the ponds for maintenance.
The net benefit of a dual-use facility would be a greatly enhanced Race City course that would attract even more tourists and race fans from across Canada, generating even more revenue for SE Calgary businesses.
Why is the City in such a rush?  Why does this issue have to be zero-sum game, with a winner and a loser?  Why can?t the City bend a little so that both parties win?
Mr. Mackenzie doesn?t know.  After months of letters and meetings and frustrated attempts to get answers he?s as much in the dark about the City?s motives as when he received the first missive out of the blue telling him he had to vacate the property in 2010.
Mr. Brooks? theory is that the City mishandled the new recycling program by not building a waste processing facility ahead of time.  Now it is playing catch up and the Race City land is the most convenient place to put the plant.  In other words, bureaucrats are covering their heinies.
We may not know what is really going on until long after Race City has been razed and motorsport fans have given up.  No one will care then.  And I suspect that is the real strategy behind the refusals to discuss this issue publicly.  If the City can keep the lid on and avoid controversy, it will all be over in no time.
What galls me most is that by applying just a little flexibility and creativity the City, Race City, racers, businesses and motorsport fans could all come out winners.  Instead, the City is playing hard ball.
Ald. Ric McIver?s motion to extend Race City?s lease will be voted on at Monday?s City Council meeting.  Email or call your alderman today.  Express your support for an extension of the lease. But most importantly, stress to your elected official that with the right approach and a spirit of compromise both sides can be winners.
Filed Under: .Featured, Auto

Allen Berg
Allen Berg Racing Schools Inc.
(403) 253-3235
(888) 722-3220

January 22, 2009, 08:37:49 PM
Reply #8


  • Guest
I am willing to bet it isn't storm water retention ponds for the dump, I bet its for development. The city has been screwed with the stormwater management in order to development industrial land in the SE for years (many articles on this at the herald).  You know, the city is in the business of selling land, not that there aren't 15 other private developers that could do a better job, but don't get me started on that.

January 26, 2009, 08:03:46 PM
Reply #9


  • Guest
Looks like bad news...

City rejects attempt to extend Race City land lease
By Kim Guttormson, Calgary HeraldJanuary 26, 2009 6:02 PMComments (2)
An attempt to extend the lease for city land used by Race City Motorsport Park was rejected by city council Monday.

Discussion about Ald. Ric McIver?s motion for an extension until at least 2015 happened behind closed doors, but the vote was public.

?I can tell you my notice of motion said extend the lease to 2015 and I?m not happy so you can draw your own conclusions,? McIver said of the recommendations that were voted down. ?I?m hopeful that the operators of the track are able to negotiate something with city administration.?

The city has leased 64-hectares of land in the city?s southeast since 1985, but say that agreement expires in 2010. The city needs the land for storm water retention.

The owner of the speedway, which hosts everything from kart to motorcycle races, maintains he?s done the work to have the lease extended to 2015.

Rick Francescone, with the Calgary Motorsport Association, said his group would be exploring legal avenues to the speedway?s closure.

?As an association, which is separate from legal avenues the facility will have,? he said.

January 27, 2009, 05:54:54 PM
Reply #10


  • Guest
Well I am very disappointed! maybe a slight understatement there. A tie vote too. Below is a news story from the Metro:

Race City is back to the bargaining table after city council voted down a motion that gave the track an easy way to extend its lease until 2015.

There are disputes between city administration and the racing track as to when the current lease expires, with the City of Calgary saying that it was up next year.

Although he couldn?t give details ? a motion was passed to keep the decisions made behind closed doors confidential for now ? Ald. Ric McIver said, ?I?m not happy,? and that track operators will now have to work the details out with city administration.

Calgary Motor Sport Association executive Rick Francescone said that as a motor sporting group they?ll be meeting and potentially looking at legal alternatives to ?keep illegal street racing off the street.?

?I knew it was going to be close,? he said of the 7-7 vote, but he had counted on Ald. Dale Hodges? vote, who was away sick yesterday.

August 01, 2009, 02:43:51 PM
Reply #11


  • Guest
the city can provide a tourist destination for the City of Calgary while paying over $100,000.00 per year to The City in the form of rent, tax and business tax? that is really a good thing..

Irs problems